What's the story behind the music movement that cried, "No"? I recently caught up with No Wave author Marc Masters via e-mail, as he prepared for a series of Bay Area appearances: Saturday, May 24, at Amoeba Music in SF and 21 Grand in Oakland and Sunday, May 25, at Artists' Television Access in SF.

SFBG: How did the book project come about?

Marc Masters: Black Dog approached me about writing a book about another subject, but for various reasons that fell through. They mentioned they had been considering doing a no wave book for a while. I¹d always liked no wave and wanted to delve further into it, since there have been lots of theories about it when it happened, which bands were part of it, and so on. So I was really excited to get that chance. I was intimated, too - so I contacted Weasel Walter for advice, since he¹s been researching and collecting this stuff forever. When he agreed to help with material and proofreading (and eventually write the foreword), I felt a lot less daunted.

SFBG: What sort of challenges did you face during the writing of the book?

MM: There were surprisingly few hurdles involved. Many of the key figures from no wave are still around and all of them were eager to talk about the time period. The only big absence in the book is Brian Eno, producer of the No New York compilation. We were unable to get him to agree to an interview. The word I got was that his management said he too busy to do any interviews for the entirety of 2007. But I think his absence in the book is interesting, since everyone else has something to say about him. It's as if he was a ghost in no wave, entering the scene briefly and making an impact without actually making any of the music himself.

SFBG: What sort of misconceptions are there about the genre?

MM: Well, most of what I've read about no wave has turned out to be pretty accurate. Weasel has heard a lot more inaccuracies about it than I have since he's been researching it for so much longer, which is why it was so
invaluable to have his help. I guess no wave is sometimes inaccurately portrayed as a totally nihilistic, negative movement. That certainly was a huge part of it and a definite intent of the participants. But there was also a passion and energy to no wave that was positive. That's the interesting irony of no wave­ the artists said no to pretty much
everything, but in doing so they found new possibilities and new things to say yes to.

SFBG: So how would you define no wave?

MM: In essence, it was a radical music and film movement in the late 1970s in New York, made by untrained artists whose ideas and attitudes were rooted in performance art and the avant-garde. It was a reaction to punk and new wave, though it took from each of those movements as well. One key is that no wave only happened - and could only have happened - in the empty, abandoned New York of the late 1970s, which offered desperation and possibility in equal measure. So time and place are crucial parts of the definition.

SFBG: Why did no wave burn out so quickly, in your opinion? And why wasn't it more "popular"?

MM: Well, New York quickly became more expensive and clubs needed bands with bigger draws, so the no wavers could no longer live on nothing or rely on the clubs to host their challenging music. That basically killed the
movement. In addition, no wave was designed to burn out fast. It was about deconstructing rock as fast as possible, and most of the bands were happy to stop once they'd accomplished that goal. As Lydia Lunch said, the idea was to "make the point so quickly that it obliterates itself instantly."

As to why it wasn't more popular, I think that's partially about time period - it was harder for new and different ideas to penetrate the mainstream back then - but mostly about the nature of no wave. It was inaccessible, confrontational, and often about repulsing the audience rather than pleasing them. This actually produced engaging art that I find a lot more pleasing than most popular music. But no wavers weren't out to win anyone over - they
wanted to make their point regardless of who wanted to hear it.

SFBG: What do you think of artists or bands that describe themselves no wave now?

MM: Well, I'm not really aware of any bands that call themselves no wave now, but there was a recent period when writers called some of the New York dance-punk bands no wave. Bands like the Rapture or the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, I guess. But those bands took less from no wave bands than from those that came immediately afterward, like Bush Tetras and ESG. I think you can't call anyone no wave now, because there wasn't a defined no wave sound. No wave was a time, place, and attitude, not a guitar sound or drum beat.

SFBG: Did you have any adventures or strange tales as a result of your work on the book?

MM: There have been a few strange occurrences since the book came out, the oddest one being that the Scottish band Franz Ferdinand had a contest on their MySpace blog to give a copy of the book away to a fan. Apparently one of the band members had accidentally bought two copies of the book, so they offered up the extra copy, and signed it for the fan who won. So someone out there has a copy of the book signed by a band who has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Oh, and also Calvin Johnson of K Records wrote to me after reading the book, explaining that at age 17 in 1980, he wrote a letter Lydia Lunch, asking her to be his date to his high school prom. Apparently she never answered.

SFBG: What was your favorite no wave artist or band?

MM: Well, this process made me really love all the no wave bands, much more than I had before. But ultimately my favorite no wave band going into this - Mars - is still my favorite coming back out. Part of it is that their stuff was the
noisiest, and that's what I gravitate to. But also, they managed to encapsulate all the integral stuff about no wave, going from primitive versions of Velvet Underground riffs all the way to making abstract noise, in the span of just two years and only 11 recorded songs! They really prove a basic idea behind no wave ­ that rock can be broken down and reconstructed in no time.

SFBG: What are you listening to now?

MM: All sorts of stuff, but my primary passion is the noisier end of the rock spectrum. That's part of what makes no wave appealing to me - it injected noise into a rock context that actually got noticed, and I think that
today's noise owes a lot to no wave because of that. So in that sense, the current inheritors of no wave are bands like Sightings, Mouthus, Wolf Eyes, and the groups Carlos Giffoni champions through the No Fun Fest. Many of them use dissonance and abstraction to create challenging rock music, much the way no wave bands did. I wouldn't call them no wave, but there are no wave ideas in what they do.

No Wave events
With author Marc Masters and Weasel Walter.
Sat/24, 2 p.m., free
Amoeba Music
1855 Haight, SF
(415) 831-1200

Sun/25, 5 p.m., $6
Artists’ Television Access
992 Valencia, SF
(415) 824-3890